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Thief Help Please

This is a discussion on Thief Help Please within the Xbox One Games forums, part of the Xbox One Forums category; It just appeared in the marketplace website. Purchased and it should be waiting to install when I get home. :-)...

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Thread: Thief Help Please

  1. #21
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    It just appeared in the marketplace website. Purchased and it should be waiting to install when I get home. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott2405 v2 View Post
    My copy arrived in the post around half an hour ago.
    Day off today, so straight upstairs xbox on and game in to install, 6gb update required! I'll genuinely be lucky if I even get to play it today.

    These forced installations are going to become a major bugbear with me.
    Feel for ya.
    Just glad my internets not too bad, I was playing it within about 15 or 20mins of installing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaleelhamidd View Post
    One thing I noticed about this game is that it tells you your objective but you got to figure out yourself how to do it. Not bad
    It's also good that you can disable hints and pointers in the settings menu.

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    The only thing I'm noticing about the level design is that, in the old days, a "level" would be a single, large map of the entire building, location, facility, or whatever. Your map was a rough sketch of the entire area, like Garret might have gleaned from informants or glances through the windows. The point being, though, that there was always an opportunity to case the joint, to circle around and figure out how to crack the nut. You could go in through the roof, or through the sewer, or steal a key and get in through the front door. Most levels had over half a dozen ways just to get into a building, then it would be an actual building, like it was built from a blueprint. You could freely go into any door, down any hallway, into the basement or the attic, figure out what loot existed, what puzzles needed solving, how many guards there were, how to find your objective (it was rarely marked), get to it, and get out. The levels had one entrance which was usually also your exit point, and there were never any loading screens inside a level. The exterior and interior of the level were all part of the same map.

    Now the levels are quite different. It's more like you are at the end of a long room full of guards and obstacles, and your goal is to get from one end to the other, from one entrance to a specific exit, where you will get a loading screen and enter an new, distinct area, where once again you have a clear goal of "getting across the area" to the next exit and loading screen. I don't feel like the locations are a real, coherent "place" that you can go off-chart and explore in their entirety. There are a LOT of doors and windows that can't be opened and don't go anywhere.

    So far it seems like this was done for story reasons. They're wanting Garrett to explore the level in a particular order so he can see and experience things a certain way. In the Foundry, they want him to see the bodies carted in, hooked, searched, and end it with him witnessing the corruption of the Thief Taker General. It's scripted and wouldn't make a lot of sense if he saw it out of order.

    But there's a certain level of freedom that is lost when you can't even think about opting to bypass areas. Whereas in the past, you might have chosen to skip a room (and all the loot potentially in it) by going over the roof and opening a skylight on the other side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Name Lips View Post
    The only thing I'm noticing about the level design is that, in the old days, a "level" would be a single, large map of the entire building, location, facility, or whatever. Your map was a rough sketch of the entire area, like Garret might have gleaned from informants or glances through the windows. The point being, though, that there was always an opportunity to case the joint, to circle around and figure out how to crack the nut. You could go in through the roof, or through the sewer, or steal a key and get in through the front door. Most levels had over half a dozen ways just to get into a building, then it would be an actual building, like it was built from a blueprint. You could freely go into any door, down any hallway, into the basement or the attic, figure out what loot existed, what puzzles needed solving, how many guards there were, how to find your objective (it was rarely marked), get to it, and get out. The levels had one entrance which was usually also your exit point, and there were never any loading screens inside a level. The exterior and interior of the level were all part of the same map.

    Now the levels are quite different. It's more like you are at the end of a long room full of guards and obstacles, and your goal is to get from one end to the other, from one entrance to a specific exit, where you will get a loading screen and enter an new, distinct area, where once again you have a clear goal of "getting across the area" to the next exit and loading screen. I don't feel like the locations are a real, coherent "place" that you can go off-chart and explore in their entirety. There are a LOT of doors and windows that can't be opened and don't go anywhere.

    So far it seems like this was done for story reasons. They're wanting Garrett to explore the level in a particular order so he can see and experience things a certain way. In the Foundry, they want him to see the bodies carted in, hooked, searched, and end it with him witnessing the corruption of the Thief Taker General. It's scripted and wouldn't make a lot of sense if he saw it out of order.

    But there's a certain level of freedom that is lost when you can't even think about opting to bypass areas. Whereas in the past, you might have chosen to skip a room (and all the loot potentially in it) by going over the roof and opening a skylight on the other side.
    Not far enough into the game to agree entirely yet but yes you're right it does feel like a step back in comparison to the the freedom of the original games.

    They still have lots of different ways to enter buildings and there are different routes on some of the levels/maps, but some maps require you to go the way they want you to.
    It seems more restricted mainly when you're doing a particular mission...

    Still throughly enjoying it though.

    It reminds me of the way the hitman series has gone although I have to say hitman is still one of my favorite stealth games even with not as much freedom as the original games.

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    Last edited by dkennyken; 02-28-2014 at 11:25 AM.

  6. #26
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    I heard that the "levels split into areas with loading screens" was mostly caused by the evolution from PC to console. In the days of Thief 2, they didn't need to devote much memory for textures and graphics, and it was possible for a PC to load an entire, fairly large map all at once. When they made Thief 3 compatible with consoles, many of the maps had to be broken up with loading screens to fit the memory restrictions. Plus the graphics started getting more complex, so it was difficult to render an entire large area, what with all of the shadows and reflections they would need to be calculating.

    There were times in Thief 2 when I would think I was doing great, only to find out that at some point the guards outside had discovered a body I thought I had hidden. I had spent the last hour of gameplay creeping through the hallways inside the house, but the guards outside were still being controlled by the AI, patrolling their routes, and actually doing things. I got back outside to make my escape and found them in active "hunting" mode, trying to find me. It doesn't look like that can happen with most of these levels anymore.

    But it's the same old "open ended vs scripted" debate we've seen in lots of games. It's really, really hard to have both a storytelling experience and an open-ended experience. In Thief 1 and 2, the story was honestly not that complex, and mostly told in cut scenes between levels. They would explain why your next mission was important for story reasons, but no actual story development could possibly occur during the level because there was every chance you would bypass it.

    As an example to highlight this concept -- previous Thief games included "Rope Arrows" which created a dangling rope for you to climb. Wait, you say, those are in the new Thief as well. But before, they could be shot into any woooden surface. Any at all, with no restrictions. You could use them to gain access in a way the developers might not have forseen. You could use them to avoid enemies, or get to different stories in a building. There were levels where most things were made of wood or stone, but that always seemed just to be the way the area was built, not a design decision to limit your mobility.

    Here I feel like the walls and barriers aren't there because it makes sense for the building or neighborhood to be built that way, but as a way to restrict my movements as a player, and make a smaller, cohesive playing area. That's a design decision and I have to respect that they'd rather make a small area play well than a large, open-ended area that's poorly detailed and possibly full of bugs.
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  7. #27
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    how do you control brightness? doesn't want to work for me! and the game is to dark
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  8. #28
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    That's one thing that suck with theif. To change the brightness you actually have to change the tv brightness. I've had mine calibrated and don't touch it. Luckily the game is fine for me. Tomb raider on the other hand was too dark but they at least let u change the bright ness in the game settings. All theif does is give u a test pattern


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  9. #29
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    Are you serious??? So I got to adjust my tv brightness than for another game of it's to light adjust TV brighter was again


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  10. #30
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    Ya. I was actually shocked when the prompt came on at the beginning. Not having the option in game to adjust brightness seems ridiculous.
    I can't even think of a game without it right now.


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